Bing Images' attempt at depicting an "early Roman drinking party" LOL!
It has been six months since I last made any progress with my translation of Livy's account of the Rape of Lucretia. We broke off at the point where the young noblemen were getting drunk and each started praising the merits of his wife... https://hive.blog/translation/@hirohurl/translating-livy-s-account-of-the-rape-of-lucretia-part-5-forte-potantibus
The next section is a bit longer and looked quite daunting at first, but the gist of it is that Collatinus, husband of Lucretia, inflamed by the contention, suggests they ride to Rome to see for themselves whose wife is the most virtuous, for, by suddenly turning up unannounced, they will see what their wives get up to when they are away...
Today's Latin Passage:
inde certamine accenso Collatinus negat uerbis opus esse; paucis id quidem horis posse sciri quantum ceteris praestet Lucretia sua. "quin, si uigor iuuentae inest, conscendimus equos inuisimusque praesentes nostrarum ingenia? id cuique spectatissimum sit quod necopinato uiri aduentu occurrerit oculis."
Here is my first attempt at the translation, with the help, I hasten to add, of my trusty Pocket Oxford Latin Dictionary, and then with some clarification from Google translate.
FIrst Attempt At Translating It
My first effort, after some corrections, and with no polishing, went like this:
From that time, influenced by the rivalry, Collatinus denied that words were needed. Certainly, in a short time it can be known by how much his Lucretia surpasses the others. "Indeed, if we have vigour of youth, why not mount our horses and go in person to see the character of our [wives]?
The next part proved quite tricky. My attempt at a literal translation went a bit haywire, but here it is:
"id cuique spectatissimum sit quod necopinato uiri aduentu occurrerit oculis."
"That to each the most observed were / as men coming unawares / meets the eyes."
Putting Google Translate To The Test
I pasted the Latin into Google translate, and while it gave me some useful pointers, I didn't feel that it got it quite right:
My reading of this sentence is that "spectatissimum" means "most observed" and that the "most observed" will be the eyes of the wives - to see whether they be innocent or guilty...
So my second attempt went like this:
"Let each [wife] be most observed who meets the eyes of the unexpected husband [on his arrival]."
Wrestling With ChatGPT
So now I have my rough translation, let's see how ChatGPT translates the passage:
Okay, the first part is not too bad. I think it would be better to correct ChatGPT and begin the passage like this:
Then, kindled by the competition, Collatinus declares...
Perhaps it would be better to follow ChatGPT and go with the Latin present tense rather than turn it all into the past.
I was interested to see that ChatGPT had translated "Lucretia sua" as "Lucretia... in her own way" because my initial translation of that was "Lucretia herself," but on checking with Google translate (which went with "his own Lucretia"), and remembering my Italian, I felt it was better translated it as "his Lucretia."
However, ChatGPT has mangled the last sentence just as much as I did at my first attempt! That led to quite a lengthy exchange until ChatGPT came around to my way of seeing things, but then went a bit too far by adding "so that the behavior of each wife may be thoroughly scrutinized"!
Consulting Translators
Here is the Reverend Canon Roberts' 1912 translation:
As the dispute became warm Collatinus said that there was no need of words, it could in a few hours be ascertained how far his Lucretia was superior to all the rest. ‘Why do we not,’ he exclaimed, ‘if we have any youthful vigour about us mount our horses and pay your wives a visit and find out their characters on the spot? What we see of the behaviour, of each on the unexpected arrival of her husband, let that be the surest test.’
And here is that of Benjamin Oliver Foster, Ph.D., 1919:
as their rivalry grew hot, Collatinus said that there was no need to talk about it, for it was in their power to know, in a few hours' time, how far the rest were excelled by his own Lucretia. “Come! If the vigour of youth is in us let us mount our horses and see for ourselves the disposition of our wives. Let every man regard as the surest test what meets his eyes when the woman's husband enters unexpected.”
And finally, one by D. Spillan, A.M., M.D., way back in 1857:
a dispute arising about it, Collatinus said, “There was no occasion for words, that it might be known in a few hours how far his Lucretia excelled all the rest. If then, added he, we have any share of the vigour of youth, let us mount our horses and examine the behaviour of our wives; that must be most satisfactory to every one, which shall meet his eyes on the unexpected arrival of [p. 75]the husband.”
It seems I read the meeting of the eyes the wrong way round, if Foster and Spillan be correct.
So here is my final translation!
Then, kindled by the rivalry, Collatinus denied that words were needed. Certainly, in a short while it might be known by how much his Lucretia surpassed the others. "Indeed, if we have vigour of youth, let's mount our horses and go and see the character of our [wives] for ourselves? Let each be most observed who meets the eyes of her unexpected husband on his arrival."
Resources:
Livy, Ab Urbe Condita Libri http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0160%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D57
Translation Part 1: https://hive.blog/livy/@hirohurl/translating-livy-s-account-of-the-rape-of-lucretia-part-1-ardeam-rutuli-habebant
Translation Part 2: https://hive.blog/proofofbrain/@hirohurl/translating-livy-s-account-of-the-rape-of-lucretia-part-2-temptata-res-est
Translation Part 3: https://hive.blog/livy/@hirohurl/translating-livy-s-account-of-the-rape-of-lucretia-part-3-in-his-stativus
Translation Part 4: https://hive.blog/latin/@hirohurl/translating-livy-s-account-of-the-rape-of-lucretia-part-4-regii-quidem-iuvenes
Translation Part5: https://hive.blog/translation/@hirohurl/translating-livy-s-account-of-the-rape-of-lucretia-part-5-forte-potantibus
Working with ChatGPT to translate Livy: https://hive.blog/proofofbrain/@hirohurl/working-with-chatgpt-to-translate-livy-s-latin-into-english-the-interrogation-process
David Hurley
