"I'm voting the best content on hive"

in LeoFinance6 months ago

EN (DE unten)

Hello dear community,

I asked the question, is there no good content on Hive?

As in many of the comments, I see it first of all as a matter of opinion. What is good for one person doesn't necessarily have to be good for another. But there are certainly one or two things here where almost everyone would say it's good content and at least everyone will find something they like here.

How did I come up with the question?

A few weeks ago I posted two links in relation to the discussion about Hivewatcher and asked what that was about?

I already knew what was happening with at least one of the links and what it was supposed to do, but I wanted to encourage others to think about it with my post.

Here again is one of the links in question (it's about all comments!):
https://ecency.com/hive-167922/@buildawhale/re-1717560003246725114-20240605t040157z

In my opinion, what's happening there is something @hivewatcher should downvote. Because that's not what voting is for.
Voting is primarily there to reward good content, not to reward the voter. But that's what happens here, because the voters get their rewards, but no author gets anything, instead the author rewards go to null, i.e. into the trash.

In contrast, when Hivewatcher downvotes, no rewards are paid out to the voters and the author, these are then distributed to everyone else, as they are not taken from the reward pool that is distributed daily.

Here, however, they are taken and partly destroyed.

That's why I asked Hivewatcher in the Discord, which you can all read if you want:

https://discord.com/channels/333959953951752194/548165821801955328

Hivewatcher then called Marky (@themarkymark).

So that nothing gets lost in translation, I'm posting screenshots here. You can see for yourselves and I'll also comment on them.

Did I write anything else? No, quite the opposite. The point was that no author receives a payout. But that's what the reward pool is for, not for destroying this share.

That's exactly the point, that the voter still gets his reward, but as I said, that's not what the system is intended for. And here I would have to say "Educate yourself", because the statement is not correct. Because there is also the case that the author decline the payout and in this case the voter gets nothing! There is then no payout and the reward pool is not emptied.

I think I have given an appropriate example. Someone puts out a cake with the condition that if you give out a piece, you can take a piece for yourself. However, no piece is distributed here, but thrown in the bin and you still take a piece. I don't think this procedure is right.

Nowhere did I say that stakeholders should give up their rewards! But you should also reward authors for their content, as the system intends.

For Marky, this is the best content available on Hive. So he says: There is no good content on Hive, that's my opinion or what do you say? If the comment with "burn comment" is the best Hive has to offer, then everything else must be crap, right?

If it's the best, why are you still on Hive? I would have left a long time ago. I never said my posts were that great and I'm not the one voting. If others think it's worth a vote, then so be it. My posts at least generate interaction and I think that's important! Well, the burnpost now also provides interaction, LOL. Without interaction Hive would be dead and if everyone would only vote on the burnpost.

He's taking $330k/year in sales pressure is his argument. Hmm, he's implying that everyone he would otherwise vote for would sell the rewards directly. But there are so many here who don't do that, who don't do powerdowns. On the contrary, they are constantly doing powerups and then he makes fun of such a posting that others reward this with an upvote.

In addition, the pressure to sell is not reduced by this amount, because in the end all hives are worth a little more and only fewer hives are sold. Those who have to sell will still sell.

The competitions may not directly ensure that new users end up here (although I think that one or two have already managed to recruit new users), but I know that they ensure that users remain active here. I myself am one who has remained active here thanks to @kryptodenno's competition. Certainly not just because of that, but that was one of the reasons.

But you're sending the wrong message by voting for the burn post. Wouldn't it be much better for onboarding to leave a vote for new users who create good content? The best onboarding is word of mouth. And what would be most effective?

What works better?

"Hey buddy, I posted a post here, it took me 2 hours and I got 2$ for it"

Or

"Hey buddy, I posted a post here, it took me 2 hours and I got 20$ for it".

Maybe you should think about whether this is really the right way and whether this is really good for Hive. In my opinion it is not! What would happen if everyone did that? Then we would probably have no content at all at some point.

You reblogged this post yourself. There were 104 people who voted that they don't think HW is doing a good job. Some complained about it and I blogged about it too. I also mentioned that it doesn't make sense that HW gets paid so much and asked questions. Unfortunately got no answer. Got downvoted for it because I flagged the proposal voters.

Only one has spoken up! So there is a discussion about it, even before about other proposals. This also applies to Inleo's onboarding proposal, which is far too high. There would certainly be cheaper alternatives.

But unfortunately we can't do anything about it, it's in the hands of the whales, because in the end they decide what gets a payout and what doesn't.

And if I'm not extremely mistaken, could you make sure that there is no distribution? Or at least influence it more clearly?
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

DE

Hallo liebe Community,

Ich hatte die Frage gestellt, gibt es auf Hive keinen guten Content?

Wie in vielen Kommentaren sehe ich es zunächst einmal so, dass es natürlich Ansichtssache ist. Was für den einen gut ist, muss für den anderen noch lange nicht gut sein. Aber sicherlich gibt es hier das eine oder andere, wo fast jeder sagen würde, das ist ein guter Inhalt und zumindest wird hier jeder etwas finden, was ihm gefällt.

Wie kam ich zu der Frage?

Vor paar Wochen hatte ich in Bezug auf die Diskussion um Hivewatcher zwei links gepostet und gefragt, was das den soll?

Was zumindest bei dem einen Link passiert und was das soll, stand für mich schon da fest, ich habe aber mit meinem Beitrag anregen wollen, dass sich auch andere darüber Gedanken machen.

Hier nochmal einer der Links, um den es nun hierbei geht (es geht um alle Kommentare!):
https://ecency.com/hive-167922/@buildawhale/re-1717560003246725114-20240605t040157z

Meiner Meinung nach ist das, was dort passiert, mal etwas, was @hivewatcher Downvoten soll. Denn das ist nicht das, wofür das Voten gedacht ist.
Das Voten ist in erster Linie dafür da, guten Content zu belohnen, nicht den Voter zu belohnen. Das passiert aber hier, denn die Voter bekommen ihre Rewards, aber kein Autor bekommt was, sondern die Autor Rewards gehen an null, also in den Müll.

Im Gegensatz dazu, wenn Hivewatcher downvotet, dann werden den Votern und dem Autor keine Rewards ausgezahlt, diese werden dann auf alle anderen verteilt, da diese nicht aus dem Rewardpool der täglich ausgeschüttet wird, entnommen werden.

Hier werden diese aber entnommen und zum Teil vernichtet.

Daher habe ich bei Hivewatcher im Discord nachgefragt, was ihr alle nachlesen könnt, wenn ihr wollt:

https://discord.com/channels/333959953951752194/548165821801955328

Hivewatcher hat daraufhin Marky (@themarkymark) "herbeigerufen".

Damit in der Übersetzung nichts verloren geht, poste ich hier Screenshots davon. Ihr könnt euch selber davon ein Bild machen und ich kommentiere diese zusätzlich.

Hatte ich irgendetwas anderes geschrieben? Nein, ganz im Gegenteil. Es ging ja darum, dass eben kein Autor eine Ausschüttung bekommt. Dafür ist aber der Rewardpool gedacht und nicht dafür, dass dieser Anteil vernichtet wird.

Genau das ist der Punkt, dass der Voter seinen Reward dennoch bekommt, aber wie gesagt, das ist nicht das, wofür das System gedacht ist. Und hier müsste ich sagen "Educate yourself", denn die Aussage ist so nicht korrekt. Denn es gibt auch den Fall, dass der Autor die Ausschüttung ausschließt und in dem Fall bekommt auch der Voter nichts! Es gibt dann keine Ausschüttung und der Rewardpool wird nicht geleert.

Ich finde, ich habe ein passendes Beispiel gebracht. Jemand stellt eine Torte hin, mit der Bedingung, wenn man ein Stück verteilt, dann darf man für sich ein Stück nehmen. Nun wird aber hier kein Stück verteilt, sondern in den Müll geschmissen und man nimmt sich dennoch ein Stück. Dieses Vorgehen finde ich nicht in Ordnung.

Ich habe nirgends geschrieben, dass Stakeholder auf Ihre Rewards verzichten sollen! Sondern Sie sollen aber auch dafür, wie es vom System gewollt ist, Autoren für Ihren Content belohnen.

Für Marky ist das also der Beste Content, den es auf Hive gibt. Damit sagt er: Es gibt keinen guten Content auf Hive, dass ist meine Meinung oder was sagt ihr dazu? Wenn die Kommentaret mit "burn comment" das Beste ist, was Hive zu bieten hat, dann muss doch alles andere Schrott sein oder?

Wenn es das Beste ist, wieso ist man dann noch auf Hive? Dann wäre ich doch schon längst weg. Ich habe nie behauptet, dass meine Beiträge so doll sind und ich bin nicht derjenige der Votet. Wenn andere meinen, es ist ein Vote wert, dann ist es so. Meine Beiträge sorgen zumindest auch für Interaktionen und das ist meiner Meinung nach wichtig! Gut, der Burnpost sorgt nun auch für Interaktion, LOL. Ohne Interaktion wäre Hive tot und wenn alle auf mal nur noch auf den Burnpost voten würden.

Er nimmt damit 330k$/Jahr an Verkaufsdruck ist sein Argument. Hmm, damit unterstellt er, dass alle, die er sonst Voten würde, direkt die Rewards verkaufen würden. Hier sind aber so viele, die das nicht machen, die keine Powerdowns machen. Im Gegenteil, die machen ständig Powerups und über so ein Posting macht er sich dann auch noch lustig, das andere eben das mit einem Upvote belohnen.

Zudem verringert sich doch der Verkaufsdruck nicht um diese Menge, denn im Endeffekt sind dadurch alle Hive etwas mehr Wert und es wird nur weniger Hive verkauft. Wer verkaufen muss, verkauft dennoch.

Die Gewinnspiele sorgen vielleicht nicht direkt dafür, dass neue User hier landen (wobei ich denke, dass der eine oder andere es schon geschafft hat neue User zu werben), aber ich weiß, dass diese dafür sorgen, dass User weiterhin hier aktiv sind. Ich selber bin einer, der auch durch @kryptodennos Gewinnspiel hier weiterhin aktiv geblieben ist. Sicherlich nicht nur deswegen, aber das war einer der Gründe.

Aber gerade mit dem Voten des Burnposts vermittelst du ein falsches Signal. Wäre es fürs Onboarding nicht viel besser, bei neuen Usern, die guten Content erstellen, ein Vote dazulassen? Das beste Onboarding ist Mund zu Mund Propaganda. Und was wäre da am wirkungsvollsten?

Was wirkt besser?

"Hey Kumpel, ich habe hier einen Beitrag gepostet, hat mich 2 Std. gekostet und habe dafür 2$ bekommen"

Oder

"Hey Kumpel, ich habe hier einen Beitrag gepostet, hat mich 2 Std. gekostet und habe dafür 20$ bekommen".

Vielleicht solltest du dir darüber Gedanken machen, ob das wirklich der Richtige Weg ist und das wirklich gut für Hive ist. Meiner Meinung nach ist es das nicht! Was wäre, wenn alle das machen würden? Dann hätten wir irgendwann wohl gar keinen Content mehr.

Du hast doch selber diesen Post reblogged. Es haben 104 Leute gestimmt, dass Sie finden, dass HW keinen guten Job macht. Es haben sich einige darüber beschwert und auch ich habe darüber gebloggt. Habe auch erwähnt, dass es keinen Sinn macht, dass HW soviel erhält und habe Fragen gestellt. Leider keine Antwort bekommen. Habe Downvote dafür bekommen, weil ich die Proposalvoter markiert habe.

Lediglich einer hat sich zu Wort gemeldet! Es herrscht also eine Diskussion darüber, auch schon zuvor über andere Proposals. So auch zum Onboarding Proposal von Inleo, das viel zu hoch ist. Da gäbe es sicherlich günstigere alternativen.

Nur können wir bedauerlicherweise nichts machen, das liegt in den Händen der Wale, denn diese Entscheiden am Ende, was eine Ausschüttung bekommt und was nicht.

Und wenn ich mich nun nicht extrem täusche, könntest du dafür sorgen, dass es keine Ausschüttung gibt? Oder zumindest deutlicher beeinflussen?

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Oh goodie, your third shit post today.

This is what you would prefer me to vote on, one of your 2-3 posts a day getting $7 for saying you powered up 148 Hive. That's more than 90% of the people on Hive make for far more effort.

https://peakd.com/hive-121566/@mein-senf-dazu/powerupday-6-24

You entirely missed the point, me voting the burn posts removes as much as $330,000 of sell pressure a year. When the DHF is draining over $3,000,000/yr on projects that extract 10x from Hive than they provide, it is what I consider the best choice for my vote.

You spammed me for over hour basically saying I am abusing because I don't forfeit curation rewards like exactly zero people do here.

Did I tell you to vote my post? Then you have it in your hands, vote for some of these 90%.

Did you even read the post? No, you didn't, because I went into the 330k and again I never said you should forego your curation. I should be accurate, then read the post properly!

You could do something against the DHF, unlike us, but you don't.

thanks for the nice review, mate! :D

image.png

It’s automated ai using usernames.

I know, I was trying to be funny...

I know. It’s as funnny as your ignorant comment above.

So either this comment is funny cause my "ignorant comment" is laughable or it is not funny cause my accusations seriously concern you.

Gotcha!

I am not concerned at all.

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Mhhh, I always thought burn posts would also burn curation rewards. if thats not the case @themarkymark is cleary acting not as the system intended... him downvoting some 10$ normies, while he can earn hundreds for literally nothing.

I expected him to have some shady hustles going on, thanks for confirming it.

Authors cannot control what curators earn. There is a little known feature to turn off curation completely but no one uses it and it doesn’t tell the voter this is the case.

I earn the exact same curation rewards as everyone on Hive. I make nothing off these burn posts and in fact it prevents upwards of $330,000 sell pressure a year.

I can vote this dudes shit posts or the burn posts and I get the exact same curation rewards. There is no special incentive to vote them outside of the reduced sell pressure and reduced inflation.

Well, aside from it being actually a duty to find good content and not just grab your curation rewards for NOT curating anything.

I mean vote buying is clearly worse and all this automated voting is not good either.

What you are doing is clearly cheating the system, but I dont expect you to have anything resembling an actual moral code.

My duty is to direct inflation where I believe it is most beneficial.

Regardless if you know my history where the last 1+ years I haven’t been able to curate due to multiple whales downvoting everything I posted and everything I curated so I stopped “curating” years ago and just voted the hbd stabilizer like all the other whales. When I was able to I switched to voting burning rewards as I disagree how the DHF funding is being used and burning rewards is the only way to even fractionally balancing the $3M/yr sell pressure created by proposals that are extracting 10x value from Hive than they provide.

Prior to being downvoted by multiple whales because I stopped their farming I was voting over 200 unique authors a week with zero influence. They all received 10% votes from my accounts evenly for like 4 years. You are barking up the wrong tree but feel free.

I remember that drama. Didn't think you would lose and while the other guy seemed crazy, I was in favor of your downfall back then.

I would gladly close that hole through that you are still breathing, but I wont hold it against you, since it seems its the only way you can get curation rewards.

My voting has always been fair generous and without self interest. I didn’t give massive unbalanced votes or chase the chain favorites. But you are free to your opinions.

you forgot to mention 'I love downvoting Germans', but I taunted you enough for today.

I don't love downvoting anyone, but as I said, my votes are without self interest.

That sucks, of course. I don't know the story, so that explains a bit. But couldn't there have been other ways?

Many people have already complained about the proposals, especially about Hivewatcher. I wrote that too. I also received a downvote for asking the proposal voters.

Unfortunately, those who vote for it have too much HP, so it would take a few million HP to stop it.

Which of the proposals do you think are good, apart from whether the amount of HBD is right? Not all of them are really bad, are they?

That sucks, of course. I don't know the story, so that explains a bit. But couldn't there have been other ways?

Nope.

https://peakd.com/hive-167922/@themarkymark/my-last-post

Which of the proposals do you think are good, apart from whether the amount of HBD is right? Not all of them are really bad, are they?

Almost none. Most of them extract at least 10x the value they provide and almost none of them are getting new users to Hive.

Agree on the point that quite some DHF proposals seem to „extract“ more value with the funding they get compared to the value they provide in the direction of onboarding new users. That’s the main problem we have currently, since Splinterlands went down there is few projects focused to that.
We are small, not within the current hot narratives within crypto and don’t have a killer DApp either to attract new users. HIVE price is still in bear market and most probably won’t make it back to the old ATH. Users get disappointed and unmotivated.

an author also does not control how many votes he receives. That's the voters' decision.

A very unknown function, so unknown that it has only been used 1000 times by 279 accounts between May 9th and today. The known frontends do show it, only Inleo does not.

The fact that you are preventing a sales pressure of 330 k per year is a milquetoast calculation. Not everyone sells their hive, most of the ones I know are just powering up. You could also exclude those who make powerdowns from a vote. The pressure to sell remains with the people who do it and their hives become worth more because there is less inflation.

Lower inflation is of course also an advantage for you ;)
I never expected you to vote my shitty posts or to stop voting, but there is so much good content and projects on Hive that are worth supporting.
And in my opinion that could lead to more onboarding, more than Inleo's proposal.

A very unknown function, so unknown that it has only been used 1000 times by 279 accounts between May 9th and today. The known frontends do show it, only Inleo does not.

It's actually been used over 350K times, at over 50K comments/day that's a drop in the bucket for the 7+ years we have been here.

It was also largely used by dapps to try to get manipulate rewards, but they failed to understand how the feature actually works and that it doesn't in fact increase authors rewards.

Average users use it less than 0.0000000000001% of the times. I'd say less than 0.001% of Hive users even know it exists. Yeah it must be SUPER COMMON in your community.

The fact that you are preventing a sales pressure of 330 k per year is a milquetoast calculation. Not everyone sells their hive, most of the ones I know are just powering up. You could also exclude those who make powerdowns from a vote. The pressure to sell remains with the people who do it and their hives become worth more because there is less inflation.

Lower inflation is of course also an advantage for you ;)

LOL.

more than Inleo's proposal.

ROTFLMAO. This is their "marketing"
https://peakd.com/@leoglossary

This did more harm to Hive and Leo.

Was geht hier eigentlich ab?
Kleinkrieg hinter den Kulissen?

Wieso hinter? !LOL

nee ist doch nur eine Diskussion ;)

What do you get if you cross a bullet and a tree with no leaves?
A cartridge in a bare tree.

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This guy keeps down voting me